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[Music]

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explore the bazaars or e-ticket ride

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into the world of the paranormal

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strap yourself in as we traverse the

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universe exploring the unexplained UFO s

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ghosts Lost Worlds

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cryptozoology waters as well as other

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dimensions it's time to take back the

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night last night now your electrifying

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hosts of exploring the bizarre Timothy

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Begley and team sports hey me out to the

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ball game take me out to the crowd buy

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me some peanuts and cracker jack I don't

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care if I ever get back just being rude

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Oh L go Yankees Go Go hey I can see that

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you're really excited about the Bronx

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Bombers being in first place but hey

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let's not forget about there are

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Cleveland Indians here we have a good

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Club you know hey we took two out of

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three with you guys last weekend yeah

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sure sure when is the last time you won

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a pennant so it's the Yankees it's the

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only team that counts the Bronx Bombers

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man that doesn't sound like good

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sportsmanship to him you know I always

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thought of you as a team player you know

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for the good of us all ah talk later

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it's my turn to bat where's the rosin

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bag time to get up and hit a home run

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for Tina and our exploring tubas our

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listeners but Tim not only Yankees

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you're just a fan yeah

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that's what you think

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[Applause]

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here we are we're making history we're

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making history tonight

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of course Rick hilberg and I have made

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history for many many years in fact I'm

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gonna have a fabulous time this evening

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I mean we always enjoy our guests but in

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particular our guest tonight has been a

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friend of mine since well we met

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probably a Rick would you say in the

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pages of Ray Palmer's flying saucers

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magazine yeah with the Ray Palmer's

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flying saucers magazine they had like a

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club news section that's right

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it was a free thing you could advertise

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it yeah where do you get free anymore

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right I did not think it's free Eddie

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Morra but yeah we we all started we all

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started meeting and greeting and

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corresponding with each other and

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sending the tapes around and and in

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spreading the word of ufology and

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putting out newsletters that's what we

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did best you and I were both grinding

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out some of the best publications in

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town but Rick I'm gonna I'm gonna take

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you back to the beginning I'm gonna let

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you tell our listeners your give them

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your background in this now I didn't

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realize until I was going over your bio

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today that you attended your first UFO

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meeting in 1958 you must have been 10

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years old no actually I was oh gosh I

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was like a loving here who's all the

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young kid just the young kids name is

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you man you know I think I didn't attend

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my first UFO meeting I don't remember

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what year was but it was a double-header

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for 50 or 75 cents I got to see Greg

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Barker and Ivan T Sanderson

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Jim Mosely was having oh I think weekly

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or bi-weekly meetings in Manhattan and I

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lived over in New Jersey and I got I was

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too young to go in myself but my

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sister's husband took me

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over on the suburban a bus and the room

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was so packed that they had a they had

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to split the the meeting into two

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different rooms in those days you could

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rent a room for like you know 20 or 25

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dollars today they Dre as you know they

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tried to you know like a thousand bucks

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just to have 12 seats in a room just

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just about you know and I was mesmerised

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I had heard these guys on the Long John

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Neville show I I was being late going to

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school because I was sitting there with

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my transistor radio courtesy of the

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Roswell aliens no doubt and you're

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sitting there and in bed with the

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blanket pulled up so that nobody else

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could hear the radio it in listening to

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Long John Neville interviews some of the

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most fascinating people I was gonna say

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on the face of the earth but he probably

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had them coming in from somewhere else

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as well

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so you know I attended the the meetings

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and I got hooked you know hooked up with

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the gym and started my own their

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newsletter what was your first step up

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location my first thing was actually

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there was a local Cleveland group it was

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called UFO newsletter a bunch of us kids

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and we were basically all in junior high

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school then and we we went and bought up

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actually I bought a spirit duplicator

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one of the little ditto machines you

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know except this one you know you could

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notice what that is anymore no no little

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purple print that smelled of alcohol

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yeah yeah when we got older we started

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drinking it no doubt but hey it printed

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purple it printed it in purple well it's

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not even think it would not even know

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and in evaporate evaporated after what

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six or seven months or something like

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that although you did find recently a

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copy of the first saucer book that I

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ever did which we managed to reprint

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inside the saucers 1962 you were the

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only person that I know of that had a

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copy and their their files and you

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shared it with me and it's now available

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Amazon along with 307 other book okay so

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you started this little Club but you

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know Cleveland was always the youthful

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logical hot spot I mean you know where I

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did know several UFO several UFO groups

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at in Cleveland and you know I used to

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have an antenna on the roof I had a ham

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radio set but it you could pull in you

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know the station's from far far away and

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with the crackling of the am dial I

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would listen to it was the Cleveland

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ufology roundtable with Earl named in

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fact yeah yeah I recently found an old

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show on the somewhere on the internet

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that had been remastered and it was 19 I

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think 65 or 1966 and they were Earl read

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a postcard from Tim Buckley of the

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interplanetary News Service oh my gosh

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oh there you go but tell us about a

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little bit about the you followed you

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there in Cleveland because that goes

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back before the Rock and Roll Hall of

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Fame certainly way before a yeah you

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falah djegal a hole of fame there to it

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to some degree give us a little rundown

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on the history there of Cleveland

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urology for some reason or other right

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from the Bryson to get going Cleveland

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was a hotbed for UFO activity not only

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sightings but people that were

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interested in the subject you know there

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were several groups in Cleveland at one

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time back in the end of 50s and 60s

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there was a Cleveland ufology project

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which Earle enough was a part of he was

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the first chairman I believe and that

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was formed in like 1956 and I was a man

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there in the 60s and one then there was

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the Cleveland UFO Society which was

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headed by a really kind man you probably

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remember him well Larry Blasi Lawrence

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Blasi oh yeah yeah yeah and they will

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see the artist yeah he was in Somis

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Errol always an artist too there was

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like a commercial artist where he was

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he was a fine artist some of his stuff

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hangs in museums all around the country

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but but Larry's group was a little bit

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more oriented towards the more esoteric

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you know angles the contact he is and

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said we're Cleveland ufology project was

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basically a nuts-and-bolts group

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affiliated with NICAP you know like some

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of the other groups around the back now

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that we had groups in Akron there were

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several UFO active UFO groups and Akron

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back in the late 50s and early 60s a

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flying saucer investigating committee

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was headed by a guy named a econ do so

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and his sidekick was a really kind guy

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named Larry Moyer it's really good

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investigators in there were smaller

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groups that like in Lima and and Findlay

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all in the concentrated in the northern

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Ohio area you had you had a small people

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yeah my rug and saying that the good a

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good year yeah that was a group that

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started in 1960s a good year UFO Society

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and it was a corporately sponsored group

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a Goodyear Tire and Rubber Company which

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was headquartered in AK when they had

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the world headquarters great big back

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then it was the business was really

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booming and they sponsored corporate

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clubs for the risk gloves on knitting

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probably bowling and this Aneta and

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there were enough people interested in

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UFOs they actually sponsored pay for a a

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corporate UFO Club and they even paid

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for them to put on a small newsletter oh

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boy that would be that would be a

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collector's item what a memory I have

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though right I mean who could ever

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remember that Goodyear had a UFO group

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yeah I can't I can't find my keys or the

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orders that people said in yesterday but

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I can't remember the the the UFO group

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there and and the newsletters well your

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newsletter know that there was a manic

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and yeah well actually don't know we

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were separate we were separate along on

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time I had my after the UFO newsletter I

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started in 62 my own UFO magazine they

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were still done on the same spirit

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duplicator machine because I bought the

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original one

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the other cold little group of guys and

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I I did that and it it eventually

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evolved into a printed publication

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probably about 19 I believe in 1964 it

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started to be offset printed now in 1966

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late 1966 Al Manac the lady Al Manac and

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Ron Pell girl who was another good

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artist they decided that they they

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wanted to do their own magazine they

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started flying saucer Digest and for

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many years we were friendly competitors

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and al finally talked me into folding my

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UFO magazine into flying saucer Digest

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in 1970 so I did at that time it was a

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tough decision but I you know was London

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it made sense and then we all three work

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together and we were actually we had a

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larger mailing list and we put our heads

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together and we went you know

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FST was it rather doggone good

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publication for many years well no you

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you just recently gave up putting it out

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yeah you had to continued up until the

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very you know the you you were the last

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English magazine printed publication in

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English anywhere as far as I know in the

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world not including the 14 times which I

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don't consider a UFO magazine the last

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one to go before you was the Australian

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ufologist okay which was a very very

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good magazine we contributed to that for

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quite a number of years and then all of

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a sudden boom it was gone

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but of course in the sixties of the 70s

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there was a proliferation of

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publications on yes I'm adhering but

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MOTU yeah yeah yeah even we have not a

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routine yeah but yeah go ahead go ahead

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we had the UFO spotter and that's

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probably really obscure one that was

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done by a young man and in Parma Heights

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Ohio which was you know one of the

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Cleveland bedroom suburbs and it was

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sort of based on FSD but it actually

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was around for two or three years and

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there were several of smaller

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00:13:39,850 --> 00:13:37,760
publications

272
00:13:43,030 --> 00:13:39,860
there's don't equate it wasn't gateway

273
00:13:45,250 --> 00:13:43,040
gate is still going yeah the gate yeah

274
00:13:49,030 --> 00:13:45,260
that started in the late 70s I believe

275
00:13:52,330 --> 00:13:49,040
and Beth Robbins is the editor and she's

276
00:13:58,810 --> 00:13:52,340
still around and you know it's sort of a

277
00:13:59,680 --> 00:13:58,820
14z yeah yeah now did the youth on did

278
00:14:01,510 --> 00:13:59,690
they get started

279
00:14:04,180 --> 00:14:01,520
did they have a publication that kids to

280
00:14:07,960 --> 00:14:04,190
get was running out of Ohio at one point

281
00:14:10,630 --> 00:14:07,970
well there were the view fine of Ohio we

282
00:14:14,800 --> 00:14:10,640
I'm the historian for that was a

283
00:14:17,860 --> 00:14:14,810
treasurer for years and yeah we're still

284
00:14:22,570 --> 00:14:17,870
going we started a newsletter oh gosh

285
00:14:24,910 --> 00:14:22,580
and and probably in the late 90s and

286
00:14:27,610 --> 00:14:24,920
we're still going today Phyllis but

287
00:14:30,430 --> 00:14:27,620
injure who is a very and analytical

288
00:14:32,350 --> 00:14:30,440
scientist and who did a lot of work on

289
00:14:34,120 --> 00:14:32,360
the pond Betty Hills dress as a matter

290
00:14:36,070 --> 00:14:34,130
of fact chemical analysis and she's done

291
00:14:38,380 --> 00:14:36,080
a number of similar cases she is the

292
00:14:41,110 --> 00:14:38,390
editor and I contribute a you know a

293
00:14:43,210 --> 00:14:41,120
retrospective little things little

294
00:14:46,000 --> 00:14:43,220
tidbits and each and every issues but we

295
00:14:48,070 --> 00:14:46,010
are we're we've had a publication for a

296
00:14:52,930 --> 00:14:48,080
number of years and yeah I ended FSD

297
00:14:55,420 --> 00:14:52,940
last fall I was ill and my wife Carol

298
00:14:57,040 --> 00:14:55,430
who was then the partner and crying and

299
00:14:59,410 --> 00:14:57,050
the secret editor of Flying Saucer

300
00:15:02,530 --> 00:14:59,420
digest yeah thank God she got breast

301
00:15:03,940 --> 00:15:02,540
cancer and which he's doing fine now but

302
00:15:06,280 --> 00:15:03,950
it was just you know they have to hit

303
00:15:08,500 --> 00:15:06,290
your priorities you you can't yeah

304
00:15:10,270 --> 00:15:08,510
you can't put out a zine and put up with

305
00:15:12,370 --> 00:15:10,280
the rigors of chemo and all that other

306
00:15:14,380 --> 00:15:12,380
stuff and all the stress and it was just

307
00:15:17,200 --> 00:15:14,390
time to time to end the run we had a

308
00:15:19,240 --> 00:15:17,210
good run yeah but you are you are still

309
00:15:21,970 --> 00:15:19,250
active on Facebook I know I correspond

310
00:15:24,780 --> 00:15:21,980
with you Erin you post some you post

311
00:15:29,530 --> 00:15:24,790
some of the the material ildo from

312
00:15:32,980 --> 00:15:29,540
yesterday yester years there and I think

313
00:15:33,910 --> 00:15:32,990
also too one of the the landmark things

314
00:15:37,470 --> 00:15:33,920
about Cleveland

315
00:15:41,440 --> 00:15:37,480
it was the original house to the

316
00:15:44,829 --> 00:15:41,450
Congress of psychologists they Michael

317
00:15:46,120 --> 00:15:44,839
right right 1964 was our first year and

318
00:15:53,020 --> 00:15:46,130
that

319
00:15:55,180 --> 00:15:53,030
number of people decided you know there

320
00:15:57,370 --> 00:15:55,190
are contact D conventions all around the

321
00:16:00,720 --> 00:15:57,380
country a giant rock and you had buck

322
00:16:04,080 --> 00:16:00,730
Nelson's thing and you had you know

323
00:16:07,690 --> 00:16:04,090
strangest was holding conventions and

324
00:16:09,220 --> 00:16:07,700
you know so on and so forth and it we

325
00:16:11,670 --> 00:16:09,230
decided it was time for a serious

326
00:16:14,560 --> 00:16:11,680
gathering a serious Conclave of

327
00:16:16,660 --> 00:16:14,570
researchers to get together and try to

328
00:16:18,850 --> 00:16:16,670
pool our resources and share our

329
00:16:20,440 --> 00:16:18,860
information and cooperate with each

330
00:16:23,050 --> 00:16:20,450
other and that that's that's what sorry

331
00:16:26,320 --> 00:16:23,060
by the way I still AM our old friend

332
00:16:28,300 --> 00:16:26,330
Brett rains he has had alternate

333
00:16:30,610 --> 00:16:28,310
perceptions he's still running he had a

334
00:16:34,030 --> 00:16:30,620
yeah there's a print publication for a

335
00:16:35,590 --> 00:16:34,040
number of years in 2000 or 2001 he went

336
00:16:37,060 --> 00:16:35,600
online which is the trend with

337
00:16:39,670 --> 00:16:37,070
everything I've been doing a number of

338
00:16:41,200 --> 00:16:39,680
articles for for Brent lately too so you

339
00:16:44,800 --> 00:16:41,210
can find by stuff's an alternate

340
00:16:47,830 --> 00:16:44,810
perceptions now okay but getting back to

341
00:16:49,630 --> 00:16:47,840
the Congress was that the original name

342
00:16:52,300 --> 00:16:49,640
I'm a little bit confused there might

343
00:16:53,950 --> 00:16:52,310
yes I'm I'm under ported about the board

344
00:16:54,790 --> 00:16:53,960
of directors and I can't remember yeah

345
00:16:57,460 --> 00:16:54,800
yeah

346
00:17:00,030 --> 00:16:57,470
the infamous permanent organizing

347
00:17:02,650 --> 00:17:00,040
committee yeah that's right

348
00:17:04,660 --> 00:17:02,660
yeah it was a kind of scientific how

349
00:17:08,050 --> 00:17:04,670
many other people are still alive that

350
00:17:13,689 --> 00:17:08,060
are well there's you and I in Greenfield

351
00:17:18,040 --> 00:17:13,699
uh yeah where do we go from there not

352
00:17:20,920 --> 00:17:18,050
too many not yeah any Jim red gray and

353
00:17:23,590 --> 00:17:20,930
know we all got we had we forgot David

354
00:17:28,510 --> 00:17:23,600
Halpern David Halpern was a rest correct

355
00:17:30,490 --> 00:17:28,520
so yeah so we we and James Steinberg how

356
00:17:32,560 --> 00:17:30,500
could we lose around NOC we forget you

357
00:17:36,280 --> 00:17:32,570
might we might like we might like to but

358
00:17:38,680 --> 00:17:36,290
you have it getting Jake kidding

359
00:17:42,220 --> 00:17:38,690
yeah there's a rivalry thing you know a

360
00:17:43,660 --> 00:17:42,230
good guy radio rifle I don't want to say

361
00:17:47,440 --> 00:17:43,670
anything too bad because then they won't

362
00:17:49,840 --> 00:17:47,450
have a tribute show I would i haha yeah

363
00:17:51,430 --> 00:17:49,850
yeah we know when you finally shake off

364
00:17:53,740 --> 00:17:51,440
the mortal coil they'll just totally

365
00:17:57,790 --> 00:17:53,750
have you there you go

366
00:17:59,740 --> 00:17:57,800
hey okay so how many this okay well Jim

367
00:18:00,070 --> 00:17:59,750
had the biggest UFO conference into a

368
00:18:03,490 --> 00:18:00,080
car

369
00:18:06,490 --> 00:18:03,500
it's of all time 1967 at the Commodore

370
00:18:08,139 --> 00:18:06,500
hotel which is now one of presidents

371
00:18:11,350 --> 00:18:08,149
Trump's plays there was for a while

372
00:18:13,810 --> 00:18:11,360
there or something and and he he had a

373
00:18:15,899 --> 00:18:13,820
girl he had a great turnout nine to ten

374
00:18:19,690 --> 00:18:15,909
or twelve thousand people and I got to

375
00:18:21,370 --> 00:18:19,700
introduce I think Venus a lady who

376
00:18:28,720 --> 00:18:21,380
claims she was from another planet and

377
00:18:31,930 --> 00:18:28,730
uh yeah well if Long John had the Midas

378
00:18:33,820 --> 00:18:31,940
touch if he went on the the air the

379
00:18:36,250 --> 00:18:33,830
night before and said that he was going

380
00:18:39,039 --> 00:18:36,260
to come down which he seldom did clear

381
00:18:42,700 --> 00:18:39,049
the place would be packed and he had a

382
00:18:45,430 --> 00:18:42,710
guest he had seven the week before the

383
00:18:48,549 --> 00:18:45,440
conference he had a guest on every night

384
00:18:50,620 --> 00:18:48,559
who was going to speak there and and Jim

385
00:18:53,200 --> 00:18:50,630
had Howard manager who hadn't spoken in

386
00:18:56,139 --> 00:18:53,210
many years right Frank strangers and

387
00:18:57,159 --> 00:18:56,149
that's the first conference that I met

388
00:18:59,980 --> 00:18:57,169
my good friend

389
00:19:02,500 --> 00:18:59,990
Brad's stager we're here just come out

390
00:19:05,169 --> 00:19:02,510
yeah that had just come out with his

391
00:19:06,759 --> 00:19:05,179
first book strangers from the sky I

392
00:19:11,830 --> 00:19:06,769
think it was yeah well yes that was

393
00:19:16,149 --> 00:19:11,840
train yeah yeah yeah it was yeah yeah he

394
00:19:18,190 --> 00:19:16,159
was there now okay so what happened to

395
00:19:20,830 --> 00:19:18,200
the group I mean it was active up into

396
00:19:22,750 --> 00:19:20,840
what ten years ago yeah uh yeah just

397
00:19:24,970 --> 00:19:22,760
about ten years ago I guess or know a

398
00:19:27,430 --> 00:19:24,980
little a little more than ten years ago

399
00:19:30,220 --> 00:19:27,440
let's let's put it that way yeah well I

400
00:19:32,350 --> 00:19:30,230
don't know yeah yeah we did meet

401
00:19:34,509 --> 00:19:32,360
recently like what about four or five

402
00:19:36,850 --> 00:19:34,519
years ago we here we had a reunion in

403
00:19:41,259 --> 00:19:36,860
2015 yeah yeah yeah

404
00:19:44,759 --> 00:19:41,269
and we fun we traveled around the

405
00:19:47,529 --> 00:19:44,769
country with that I mean it was a

406
00:19:51,940 --> 00:19:47,539
traveling show I mean I put it on one

407
00:19:54,430 --> 00:19:51,950
time and a Phoenix yeah I was there yeah

408
00:19:56,680 --> 00:19:54,440
that's great one one time in Miami did

409
00:19:59,110 --> 00:19:56,690
you come to that yes I was in Miami

410
00:20:01,419 --> 00:19:59,120
Beach yes oh yeah I've been to a lot of

411
00:20:04,799 --> 00:20:01,429
them yeah we were all over the country

412
00:20:08,139 --> 00:20:04,809
San Francisco New York or Atlanta yeah

413
00:20:10,899 --> 00:20:08,149
Miami Beach all over the country man

414
00:20:13,930 --> 00:20:10,909
every everyplace conceivable Logansport

415
00:20:17,049 --> 00:20:13,940
Indiana Columbus Ohio

416
00:20:19,450 --> 00:20:17,059
you know how much you know corn-fed any

417
00:20:22,480 --> 00:20:19,460
get the name King of Prussia

418
00:20:24,220 --> 00:20:22,490
Pennsylvania yes yes yes yes I forgot

419
00:20:26,950 --> 00:20:24,230
about that one yeah we've been all over

420
00:20:28,659 --> 00:20:26,960
the place but as to what happened I

421
00:20:31,019 --> 00:20:28,669
think it was just competition from you

422
00:20:32,889 --> 00:20:31,029
fun mu fond became the dominant

423
00:20:36,009 --> 00:20:32,899
organization it was kind of like the

424
00:20:39,940 --> 00:20:36,019
thing with with nycap they were they

425
00:20:41,710 --> 00:20:39,950
were more of a membership oriented group

426
00:20:44,710 --> 00:20:41,720
you know and they put out a regular

427
00:20:48,090 --> 00:20:44,720
publication and we didn't we were just a

428
00:20:50,320 --> 00:20:48,100
gathering of you know interested people

429
00:20:51,999 --> 00:20:50,330
basically heads of UFO groups

430
00:20:54,450 --> 00:20:52,009
publications where the movers and

431
00:20:57,249 --> 00:20:54,460
shakers and we tried to get together and

432
00:20:59,680 --> 00:20:57,259
exchange information as best we could

433
00:21:02,499 --> 00:20:59,690
and kept in touch and we got a lot of

434
00:21:05,139 --> 00:21:02,509
work done you know on the periphery of

435
00:21:06,639 --> 00:21:05,149
things you know the after session

436
00:21:09,220 --> 00:21:06,649
meetings we would get together and we

437
00:21:11,409 --> 00:21:09,230
make deals and write articles and share

438
00:21:14,769 --> 00:21:11,419
information that was the fun part of it

439
00:21:18,789 --> 00:21:14,779
but yeah mu fine was a more public open

440
00:21:21,930 --> 00:21:18,799
membership publication and and they you

441
00:21:25,480 --> 00:21:21,940
know gradually took over well you know

442
00:21:27,399 --> 00:21:25,490
there were even minutes if you remember

443
00:21:27,909 --> 00:21:27,409
the the secretary forum anybody here

444
00:21:32,860 --> 00:21:27,919
yeah

445
00:21:33,399 --> 00:21:32,870
John John J Robinson on changmin that's

446
00:21:36,639 --> 00:21:33,409
correct

447
00:21:39,519 --> 00:21:36,649
and put all the UFO sightings and stuff

448
00:21:42,970 --> 00:21:39,529
on punch cards that was yes that was the

449
00:21:46,509 --> 00:21:42,980
project ray file project as well and

450
00:21:49,060 --> 00:21:46,519
annex at Everest yeah it never went

451
00:21:51,220 --> 00:21:49,070
anywhere no well no because what could

452
00:21:53,259 --> 00:21:51,230
you do with it I mean we really what do

453
00:21:54,909 --> 00:21:53,269
you thinking about well you knew you had

454
00:21:56,200 --> 00:21:54,919
a couple of thousand sightings there but

455
00:21:58,960 --> 00:21:56,210
what does that tell you because you

456
00:22:01,810 --> 00:21:58,970
can't separate the real UFOs from the

457
00:22:04,749 --> 00:22:01,820
fake UFOs and the hallucinations and and

458
00:22:09,159 --> 00:22:04,759
and this planet Venus and also you end

459
00:22:10,720 --> 00:22:09,169
up with just nothing really no you know

460
00:22:13,119 --> 00:22:10,730
I mean John keel told us more when he

461
00:22:15,249 --> 00:22:13,129
said that the the the height of UFO

462
00:22:17,169 --> 00:22:15,259
sightings was every woman's day night

463
00:22:19,480 --> 00:22:17,179
between 9:00 and 10:00 yeah Wednesday

464
00:22:21,730 --> 00:22:19,490
night yes I remember that the infamous

465
00:22:23,950 --> 00:22:21,740
Wednesday night cycle but anyway you

466
00:22:26,169 --> 00:22:23,960
know we we tried we there was a there

467
00:22:27,690 --> 00:22:26,179
was a fellow named crow and I can't

468
00:22:30,000 --> 00:22:27,700
think of his first name

469
00:22:31,950 --> 00:22:30,010
and but he was a computer programmer and

470
00:22:35,610 --> 00:22:31,960
he showed up at one of the meetings and

471
00:22:38,130 --> 00:22:35,620
people business wasn't like 1965 you

472
00:22:40,200 --> 00:22:38,140
know computers were saying exit computer

473
00:22:42,750 --> 00:22:40,210
what do you do well oh yeah it's a magic

474
00:22:44,250 --> 00:22:42,760
thing you feed it information and it

475
00:22:45,810 --> 00:22:44,260
tells you everything you want to know

476
00:22:50,030 --> 00:22:45,820
well you know it's garbage in garbage

477
00:22:53,010 --> 00:22:50,040
out but we didn't learn that we read

478
00:22:55,710 --> 00:22:53,020
absolutely primitive yeah yeah it was

479
00:22:58,410 --> 00:22:55,720
but we worked with Eddie Beeville Eddie

480
00:23:02,250 --> 00:22:58,420
BOE who's still around he absolutely

481
00:23:04,620 --> 00:23:02,260
wrecked yeah out in Arizona and he was

482
00:23:07,800 --> 00:23:04,630
he kind of took charge of gray file for

483
00:23:10,050 --> 00:23:07,810
a while there and we would end up at

484
00:23:12,960 --> 00:23:10,060
meetings and we would be filling out

485
00:23:15,420 --> 00:23:12,970
these little information cards you know

486
00:23:17,820 --> 00:23:15,430
and stuff like that and and and and not

487
00:23:20,070 --> 00:23:17,830
having fun drinking and carousing and we

488
00:23:23,850 --> 00:23:20,080
were working on this stuff but we did it

489
00:23:26,400 --> 00:23:23,860
and we break again we did a little bit

490
00:23:28,440 --> 00:23:26,410
of drinking and carousing only after we

491
00:23:34,050 --> 00:23:28,450
got so many cards done to him you know

492
00:23:35,280 --> 00:23:34,060
yeah yeah well Jim Jim Mosely and I were

493
00:23:38,340 --> 00:23:35,290
down at the bar while you guys were

494
00:23:40,620 --> 00:23:38,350
punching cards I see I was sent there

495
00:23:45,360 --> 00:23:40,630
you guys have all the fun mom always

496
00:23:48,570 --> 00:23:45,370
liked you best anyway you know well you

497
00:23:52,830 --> 00:23:48,580
know where we're coming up on our break

498
00:23:56,130 --> 00:23:52,840
and when we come back I want to hit you

499
00:23:59,210 --> 00:23:56,140
up on some of the the things you know

500
00:24:05,460 --> 00:23:59,220
best mainly about the UFO activity in

501
00:24:09,000 --> 00:24:05,470
Ohio past present and future because

502
00:24:11,760 --> 00:24:09,010
you're the man and with the how many

503
00:24:14,250 --> 00:24:11,770
file cabinets you got there at home well

504
00:24:18,270 --> 00:24:14,260
we're back after the break after the

505
00:24:29,750 --> 00:24:18,280
break after the break all right I'll be

506
00:24:36,480 --> 00:24:33,900
now back to exploring the bazaar with

507
00:24:39,810 --> 00:24:36,490
two of the most electrifying researchers

508
00:24:41,870 --> 00:24:39,820
in the Paranoid your hosts Timothy Becca

509
00:24:45,840 --> 00:24:41,880
Lee and tinsmiths

510
00:24:50,790 --> 00:24:45,850
and we have this evening

511
00:24:52,680 --> 00:24:50,800
Ohio's main man ufologist Rick Gilbert

512
00:24:55,050 --> 00:24:52,690
and Rick we forgot to mention that you

513
00:24:59,790 --> 00:24:55,060
were also a publisher of the book of

514
00:25:02,100 --> 00:24:59,800
weird ology yeah we yeah we had a little

515
00:25:04,170 --> 00:25:02,110
booklet the book of weird ology and we

516
00:25:08,280 --> 00:25:04,180
had a weird allergy newsletter that went

517
00:25:11,790 --> 00:25:08,290
on yeah yeah yeah yeah that was I pulled

518
00:25:13,440 --> 00:25:11,800
it into fsd Oh about 10 years ago so we

519
00:25:15,840 --> 00:25:13,450
just it's just too much to do two

520
00:25:19,740 --> 00:25:15,850
different publications but yeah we gotta

521
00:25:22,530 --> 00:25:19,750
sort anything yeah tops Cleveland

522
00:25:24,750 --> 00:25:22,540
ufology a project they are still active

523
00:25:26,190 --> 00:25:24,760
correct they still have they are just a

524
00:25:28,350 --> 00:25:26,200
fact they have a meeting coming up I

525
00:25:30,630 --> 00:25:28,360
believe this Saturday night and they

526
00:25:32,280 --> 00:25:30,640
meet at a local community college in a

527
00:25:34,560 --> 00:25:32,290
western suburb of Cleveland they're

528
00:25:36,720 --> 00:25:34,570
still going pretty strong they've got a

529
00:25:41,280 --> 00:25:36,730
quite a few members yeah they're still

530
00:25:43,800 --> 00:25:41,290
in since 1956 do they do they they have

531
00:25:46,440 --> 00:25:43,810
guests the speakers and all yes they

532
00:25:48,960 --> 00:25:46,450
will get guest speakers uh not too from

533
00:25:51,270 --> 00:25:48,970
too far away though I don't believe some

534
00:25:54,090 --> 00:25:51,280
Ohio people and some of their members

535
00:25:55,830 --> 00:25:54,100
make presentations but yes you know on

536
00:25:59,490 --> 00:25:55,840
occasion they they have had some people

537
00:26:01,050 --> 00:25:59,500
who may be in town at the time and I I

538
00:26:03,330 --> 00:26:01,060
haven't been to any of the meetings I

539
00:26:05,460 --> 00:26:03,340
don't drive at night anymore anymore

540
00:26:07,820 --> 00:26:05,470
because of some eye issues from an

541
00:26:09,600 --> 00:26:07,830
accident about ten years ago but I

542
00:26:11,940 --> 00:26:09,610
understand that they they have some

543
00:26:15,870 --> 00:26:11,950
rather lively meetings and some rather

544
00:26:20,160 --> 00:26:15,880
good ones not as good as ours I'm sure

545
00:26:23,820 --> 00:26:20,170
oh no we were both all right but hey

546
00:26:27,600 --> 00:26:23,830
let's get it into we've talked about the

547
00:26:33,420 --> 00:26:27,610
key figures in Ohio ufology but let's

548
00:26:36,120 --> 00:26:33,430
talk about what has made Ohio famous

549
00:26:38,520 --> 00:26:36,130
mainly the many many sightings that have

550
00:26:41,430 --> 00:26:38,530
taken place there over the years in fact

551
00:26:42,000 --> 00:26:41,440
at one point Rick was in Ohio right up

552
00:26:43,520 --> 00:26:42,010
there as

553
00:26:46,470 --> 00:26:43,530
one of the states with the most UFO

554
00:26:49,080 --> 00:26:46,480
reports I believe at one time it was

555
00:26:50,610 --> 00:26:49,090
like number three for many years and I

556
00:26:52,830 --> 00:26:50,620
believe this was back in the nineteen

557
00:26:55,830 --> 00:26:52,840
sixties and maybe even later on the net

558
00:26:58,230 --> 00:26:55,840
but but yeah it always has been and it

559
00:27:01,010 --> 00:26:58,240
still is I mean I have a friend in

560
00:27:04,230 --> 00:27:01,020
Pennsylvania who keeps tracks track on

561
00:27:05,970 --> 00:27:04,240
UFO sightings and he sends regular

562
00:27:08,010 --> 00:27:05,980
printouts and there are a good number of

563
00:27:10,710 --> 00:27:08,020
cases that you know comfortable various

564
00:27:13,350 --> 00:27:10,720
parts of Ohio so yeah it's still active

565
00:27:15,000 --> 00:27:13,360
we think we probably because of the

566
00:27:18,450 --> 00:27:15,010
interest that's been in the state all

567
00:27:21,600 --> 00:27:18,460
over from the north to the south

568
00:27:23,580 --> 00:27:21,610
I guess that the folks that were

569
00:27:25,260 --> 00:27:23,590
interested the subject heard about these

570
00:27:27,390 --> 00:27:25,270
cases and therefore were able to

571
00:27:29,310 --> 00:27:27,400
publicize them and their various

572
00:27:33,270 --> 00:27:29,320
newsletters in meetings yeah so they've

573
00:27:36,810 --> 00:27:33,280
entered the public record now take us

574
00:27:40,260 --> 00:27:36,820
back as many years as you can what was

575
00:27:42,600 --> 00:27:40,270
the first important UFO sighting in Ohio

576
00:27:46,170 --> 00:27:42,610
that you could recall well the first

577
00:27:49,710 --> 00:27:46,180
really important UFO sighting in Ohio to

578
00:27:54,000 --> 00:27:49,720
my mind was the Norwood Ohio searchlight

579
00:27:58,950 --> 00:27:54,010
case and this is back in 1954 and it was

580
00:28:01,620 --> 00:27:58,960
investigated by another famous yeah land

581
00:28:05,010 --> 00:28:01,630
Stringfield of Cincinnati that's correct

582
00:28:06,810 --> 00:28:05,020
now Norwood is a nearby suburb of

583
00:28:09,270 --> 00:28:06,820
Cincinnati matter of fact we even had a

584
00:28:11,400 --> 00:28:09,280
convention in Cincinnati back in the I

585
00:28:13,170 --> 00:28:11,410
think it was a 70s or something so we've

586
00:28:15,120 --> 00:28:13,180
been all over the place another city I

587
00:28:18,570 --> 00:28:15,130
forgot about anyway

588
00:28:21,960 --> 00:28:18,580
yeah the Norwood was it was a really

589
00:28:24,600 --> 00:28:21,970
close in suburb of Cincinnati and at a

590
00:28:27,900 --> 00:28:24,610
particular Catholic Church and they were

591
00:28:33,360 --> 00:28:27,910
having a carnival and this was in August

592
00:28:36,200 --> 00:28:33,370
of 1954 and they had as was you know the

593
00:28:39,810 --> 00:28:36,210
custom in those days they had a large

594
00:28:42,450 --> 00:28:39,820
war surplus searchlight that they would

595
00:28:44,640 --> 00:28:42,460
rent and the operator would come out and

596
00:28:46,590 --> 00:28:44,650
sweep the sky with these bees yes and

597
00:28:48,390 --> 00:28:46,600
and back then people with flock was

598
00:28:50,820 --> 00:28:48,400
sacked unless you know something's going

599
00:28:53,130 --> 00:28:50,830
on it must be some sort of fun or

600
00:28:55,020 --> 00:28:53,140
whatever and they flock to them you know

601
00:28:55,890 --> 00:28:55,030
and there was the carnival roaring away

602
00:28:57,720 --> 00:28:55,900
and they you know

603
00:29:00,930 --> 00:28:57,730
they got a few dollars for their church

604
00:29:02,790 --> 00:29:00,940
well the searchlight operator and a

605
00:29:05,910 --> 00:29:02,800
number of other witnesses including the

606
00:29:10,380 --> 00:29:05,920
the the priest who was a fellow named a

607
00:29:12,480 --> 00:29:10,390
Reverend Gregory Miller they happen to

608
00:29:15,030 --> 00:29:12,490
notice that there was uh some sort of a

609
00:29:18,090 --> 00:29:15,040
disc like object that would occasionally

610
00:29:19,850 --> 00:29:18,100
show up in the searchlight beam and this

611
00:29:23,790 --> 00:29:19,860
these were these were clear evenings

612
00:29:26,010 --> 00:29:23,800
there were no clouds whatever and this

613
00:29:34,410 --> 00:29:26,020
thing was there for several nights

614
00:29:35,970 --> 00:29:34,420
running and the they the disc wouldn't

615
00:29:38,150 --> 00:29:35,980
shape the object or whatever it was I'm

616
00:29:41,490 --> 00:29:38,160
trying to remember it admitted a couple

617
00:29:43,440 --> 00:29:41,500
groups of satellite objects like

618
00:29:45,450 --> 00:29:43,450
triangular objects it would shoot out of

619
00:29:50,360 --> 00:29:45,460
it which is a common you know thing and

620
00:29:53,580 --> 00:29:50,370
a lot of sightings in one evening

621
00:29:56,460 --> 00:29:53,590
there was a former army searchlight

622
00:29:59,430 --> 00:29:56,470
operator and I looked his name up his

623
00:30:03,660 --> 00:29:59,440
name is Don burger and they were able to

624
00:30:07,020 --> 00:30:03,670
take a couple rolls of movie film yeah

625
00:30:10,590 --> 00:30:07,030
and with the telephone like no I've seen

626
00:30:12,330 --> 00:30:10,600
yeah the still photobook autograph yes

627
00:30:15,150 --> 00:30:12,340
there are still photographs that were

628
00:30:18,960 --> 00:30:15,160
taken with an old Speed Graphic press

629
00:30:24,240 --> 00:30:18,970
camera through another that was equipped

630
00:30:26,250 --> 00:30:24,250
with a telephoto lens and the I mean

631
00:30:28,590 --> 00:30:26,260
it's it's a good case here you had a

632
00:30:30,420 --> 00:30:28,600
multiple witness case because one that

633
00:30:31,980 --> 00:30:30,430
when they they were seeing this thing in

634
00:30:34,080 --> 00:30:31,990
the searchlight beam some of the on

635
00:30:35,700 --> 00:30:34,090
lookers came and they sought to not just

636
00:30:38,940 --> 00:30:35,710
the police to the searchlight operator

637
00:30:41,990 --> 00:30:38,950
but on occasion I guess it was a high of

638
00:30:45,180 --> 00:30:42,000
maybe 15 or 20 people at any one time

639
00:30:50,070 --> 00:30:45,190
we're actually watching this thing and

640
00:30:52,740 --> 00:30:50,080
we had a movie okay one of the weird

641
00:30:55,830 --> 00:30:52,750
things about it if I remember correctly

642
00:31:00,060 --> 00:30:55,840
is that the object somehow miraculously

643
00:31:03,540 --> 00:31:00,070
pulled the searchlight beam outside of a

644
00:31:04,050 --> 00:31:03,550
straight line you know that may be the

645
00:31:05,910 --> 00:31:04,060
case

646
00:31:08,430 --> 00:31:05,920
I don't remember about that particular

647
00:31:11,760 --> 00:31:08,440
case yes but I can't

648
00:31:14,460 --> 00:31:11,770
look at the photograph the object is a

649
00:31:17,820 --> 00:31:14,470
little bit off to the left if I remember

650
00:31:20,460 --> 00:31:17,830
correctly and the beam is following it

651
00:31:23,160 --> 00:31:20,470
okay all right yeah I don't remember

652
00:31:24,900 --> 00:31:23,170
that aspect of the case and I know that

653
00:31:27,780 --> 00:31:24,910
was written up in stringfield's book it

654
00:31:31,520 --> 00:31:27,790
was called inside saucer post three Oh

655
00:31:34,740 --> 00:31:31,530
blue yeah something like that yes yeah

656
00:31:36,480 --> 00:31:34,750
didn't he have no Len the string field

657
00:31:40,830 --> 00:31:36,490
of course who is probably best known for

658
00:31:43,200 --> 00:31:40,840
his cataloguing and I was going to say

659
00:31:46,440 --> 00:31:43,210
graduating with that yeah yeah you

660
00:31:47,610 --> 00:31:46,450
answer Eagles crash retracts yeah that's

661
00:31:53,070 --> 00:31:47,620
correct

662
00:31:56,490 --> 00:31:53,080
but he had a hotline to the military he

663
00:31:59,640 --> 00:31:56,500
was a such a considered such a I guess a

664
00:32:01,080 --> 00:31:59,650
credible researcher that it was even

665
00:32:05,400 --> 00:32:01,090
somewhat of a sharing of information

666
00:32:08,580 --> 00:32:05,410
between him and the military industrial

667
00:32:11,250 --> 00:32:08,590
come yes it was more of a one way thing

668
00:32:13,710 --> 00:32:11,260
though as my understanding I mean he he

669
00:32:16,500 --> 00:32:13,720
won suits he had a hotline to some

670
00:32:18,480 --> 00:32:16,510
filter center or whatever and he would

671
00:32:21,000 --> 00:32:18,490
call in these reports and I don't think

672
00:32:23,850 --> 00:32:21,010
he got too much information back but he

673
00:32:27,090 --> 00:32:23,860
was you know getting it into them doing

674
00:32:29,760 --> 00:32:27,100
is do it he was a former Army Air Corps

675
00:32:31,530 --> 00:32:29,770
he worked I mean he was a bomber not a

676
00:32:34,830 --> 00:32:31,540
pilot but I think it was a gunner or

677
00:32:37,320 --> 00:32:34,840
something some b-17s saw some pretty

678
00:32:39,980 --> 00:32:37,330
heavy action during World War two yeah

679
00:32:43,860 --> 00:32:39,990
so well but but he yeah he had a hotline

680
00:32:45,660 --> 00:32:43,870
also where people could call in from the

681
00:32:49,170 --> 00:32:45,670
general public like we did here in

682
00:32:51,270 --> 00:32:49,180
Cleveland for several oh my god for many

683
00:32:54,330 --> 00:32:51,280
many years I even had when calling into

684
00:32:56,820 --> 00:32:54,340
into my house for back in the 80s 70s

685
00:32:58,350 --> 00:32:56,830
and 80s so I got a lot of different

686
00:33:01,710 --> 00:32:58,360
reports oh so did Al Manac

687
00:33:05,430 --> 00:33:01,720
back in the sixties but yeah there was

688
00:33:09,650 --> 00:33:05,440
speaking of al-madiq and world war ii al

689
00:33:12,600 --> 00:33:09,660
Manac had a sighting of a full fighter

690
00:33:15,660 --> 00:33:12,610
with when he was in the military he was

691
00:33:19,720 --> 00:33:15,670
in the Air Force and it was it was over

692
00:33:24,460 --> 00:33:19,730
Tripoli and he he was he

693
00:33:27,940 --> 00:33:24,470
his crew were making tok targets and he

694
00:33:30,070 --> 00:33:27,950
was he they saw some sort of a strange

695
00:33:32,680 --> 00:33:30,080
object a ball like object it was a

696
00:33:36,670 --> 00:33:32,690
maneuvering around an eclair Scottie

697
00:33:38,950 --> 00:33:36,680
called an officer Nazi UFO yeah which is

698
00:33:40,600 --> 00:33:38,960
not beautiful honestly yeah it had the

699
00:33:43,540 --> 00:33:40,610
little swastikas on everything actually

700
00:33:47,680 --> 00:33:43,550
I'm sure anyway anyway he called an

701
00:33:49,450 --> 00:33:47,690
officer over and he said sir look at

702
00:33:52,210 --> 00:33:49,460
that what do you make of that sir and

703
00:33:55,090 --> 00:33:52,220
the officer just kind of looked up and

704
00:33:57,070 --> 00:33:55,100
said you know you know airman I don't

705
00:33:59,800 --> 00:33:57,080
see anything at all why don't you get

706
00:34:03,130 --> 00:33:59,810
back to building your tow target here so

707
00:34:05,980 --> 00:34:03,140
that was that well you know al I could

708
00:34:09,430 --> 00:34:05,990
still he had the finest sense of humor

709
00:34:12,120 --> 00:34:09,440
and he could make your role on the role

710
00:34:17,140 --> 00:34:12,130
on the role on the floor I mean he was

711
00:34:19,960 --> 00:34:17,150
sometimes unintentionally maybe maybe so

712
00:34:23,680 --> 00:34:19,970
now would you what would you consider to

713
00:34:28,630 --> 00:34:23,690
be like the top two or three cases in in

714
00:34:30,460 --> 00:34:28,640
Ohio over the years okay well we had you

715
00:34:34,600 --> 00:34:30,470
have to go back to 1957

716
00:34:38,770 --> 00:34:34,610
that was the old and Moore case and this

717
00:34:41,830 --> 00:34:38,780
was in November of that year and he was

718
00:34:44,770 --> 00:34:41,840
a more was a plasterer by trade he was

719
00:34:48,670 --> 00:34:44,780
getting back to his home in Hunsberger

720
00:34:51,040 --> 00:34:48,680
which is far eastern suburb he saw some

721
00:34:53,350 --> 00:34:51,050
sort of a bright star like thing

722
00:34:54,910 --> 00:34:53,360
approaching him and it seemed to be

723
00:34:58,480 --> 00:34:54,920
following the course of the road which

724
00:34:59,890 --> 00:34:58,490
was a state highway is the light gut you

725
00:35:02,290 --> 00:34:59,900
know brighter and brighter he pulled to

726
00:35:06,970 --> 00:35:02,300
the side of the road to watch it and he

727
00:35:11,350 --> 00:35:06,980
switched off his ignition and in in a

728
00:35:14,620 --> 00:35:11,360
matter of seconds he said it was over a

729
00:35:17,230 --> 00:35:14,630
large field at an intersection there of

730
00:35:19,600 --> 00:35:17,240
Hart Road I think in route 86 if I'm not

731
00:35:22,420 --> 00:35:19,610
mistaken it was still high in the air

732
00:35:25,180 --> 00:35:22,430
but it seemed to split apart and one

733
00:35:27,850 --> 00:35:25,190
section of it moved out of his range of

734
00:35:30,460 --> 00:35:27,860
vision the other descended slowly with

735
00:35:33,780 --> 00:35:30,470
no noise or anything into that

736
00:35:36,569 --> 00:35:33,790
joining field and it looks like

737
00:35:39,599 --> 00:35:36,579
it was a big as a house looming you know

738
00:35:41,220 --> 00:35:39,609
right in front of them and he couldn't

739
00:35:45,170 --> 00:35:41,230
tell if it was resting on the ground or

740
00:35:48,810 --> 00:35:45,180
not he said it was about 50 feet across

741
00:35:51,060 --> 00:35:48,820
maybe 20 feet from top to bottom there

742
00:35:54,720 --> 00:35:51,070
was a class that he bound pretty taut ya

743
00:35:56,849 --> 00:35:54,730
round saucer like you know two saucers

744
00:35:58,710 --> 00:35:56,859
placed on one another you know the

745
00:36:01,650 --> 00:35:58,720
classic thing and it had a sort of a

746
00:36:04,260 --> 00:36:01,660
dome a cone-shaped dome in the center at

747
00:36:07,440 --> 00:36:04,270
the top he watched it for about 15

748
00:36:09,359 --> 00:36:07,450
minutes and he you know got out to get a

749
00:36:11,849 --> 00:36:09,369
closer look but he had this you know

750
00:36:13,680 --> 00:36:11,859
eerie sort of weird feeling about they

751
00:36:17,880 --> 00:36:13,690
didn't want to approach it any any any

752
00:36:20,250 --> 00:36:17,890
closer so he actually didn't but he

753
00:36:21,630 --> 00:36:20,260
could he could see the object sort of

754
00:36:23,640 --> 00:36:21,640
clearly because it was a bright moon

755
00:36:25,980 --> 00:36:23,650
that night and and there was a clear

756
00:36:30,120 --> 00:36:25,990
night and he thought it to be like a

757
00:36:35,430 --> 00:36:30,130
shiny metallic thing and eventually it

758
00:36:38,069 --> 00:36:35,440
took off and he ran home and drove home

759
00:36:40,650 --> 00:36:38,079
and you know called authorities about it

760
00:36:42,859 --> 00:36:40,660
civil defense and local sheriff and they

761
00:36:45,420 --> 00:36:42,869
came out in the civil defense director

762
00:36:48,630 --> 00:36:45,430
for Lake County which was where the

763
00:36:49,920 --> 00:36:48,640
sighting occurred actually he couldn't

764
00:36:52,380 --> 00:36:49,930
make it out that night but he came out

765
00:36:55,230 --> 00:36:52,390
the next day and they saw some small

766
00:36:57,900 --> 00:36:55,240
markings about an inch or an inch and a

767
00:36:59,880 --> 00:36:57,910
half deep into the soil and they

768
00:37:02,400 --> 00:36:59,890
consisted of like three holes in a

769
00:37:04,260 --> 00:37:02,410
triangular pattern with a fourth hole

770
00:37:06,870 --> 00:37:04,270
outside of the thing kind of like the

771
00:37:09,569 --> 00:37:06,880
Socorro landing really thing about it

772
00:37:12,750 --> 00:37:09,579
and there was some plaster cast made

773
00:37:14,790 --> 00:37:12,760
over this and the the civil defense

774
00:37:18,270 --> 00:37:14,800
director took a Geiger counter reading

775
00:37:20,099 --> 00:37:18,280
about 1520 hours after the thing and it

776
00:37:23,130 --> 00:37:20,109
area about 50 feet diameter showed a

777
00:37:26,400 --> 00:37:23,140
higher reading of than the background

778
00:37:30,480 --> 00:37:26,410
and it was you know well above normal

779
00:37:32,130 --> 00:37:30,490
and you know so there was a little bit

780
00:37:34,319 --> 00:37:32,140
of EMA there's little physical evidence

781
00:37:38,490 --> 00:37:34,329
and evidence as far as a Geiger counter

782
00:37:42,120 --> 00:37:38,500
eating so it was a you know like a

783
00:37:43,950 --> 00:37:42,130
credible sighting it the strange that's

784
00:37:47,170 --> 00:37:43,960
really strange part of the sighting

785
00:37:50,560 --> 00:37:47,180
occurs later when the Air Force

786
00:37:53,050 --> 00:37:50,570
calls more and asked him if he would

787
00:37:56,410 --> 00:37:53,060
like to come to Washington DC to discuss

788
00:37:59,410 --> 00:37:56,420
his case and he was kind of taken aback

789
00:38:03,250 --> 00:37:59,420
by they said sure and the whoever it was

790
00:38:06,940 --> 00:38:03,260
a lieutenant or whatever said well okay

791
00:38:10,260 --> 00:38:06,950
pack a bag and I'll pick you up and the

792
00:38:12,580 --> 00:38:10,270
Air Force man and an Air Force car came

793
00:38:14,710 --> 00:38:12,590
took him to an Air Force Base in

794
00:38:19,540 --> 00:38:14,720
Youngstown and flew him to Washington DC

795
00:38:23,200 --> 00:38:19,550
or so so more claims and there he was

796
00:38:25,570 --> 00:38:23,210
ensconced in a room not in the Pentagon

797
00:38:29,080 --> 00:38:25,580
but in an office building somewhere in

798
00:38:32,620 --> 00:38:29,090
DC he his meals were taken there they

799
00:38:34,510 --> 00:38:32,630
wouldn't allow him to go out and they

800
00:38:38,620 --> 00:38:34,520
grilled him at length about the siting

801
00:38:41,530 --> 00:38:38,630
and he was returned the next day via

802
00:38:46,270 --> 00:38:41,540
plane and they driven to his house did

803
00:38:48,070 --> 00:38:46,280
he get this no he did but here you have

804
00:38:49,540 --> 00:38:48,080
this sinister thing you know that so

805
00:38:51,850 --> 00:38:49,550
many people used to back in the day

806
00:38:54,490 --> 00:38:51,860
claim the Air Force knows everything and

807
00:38:56,470 --> 00:38:54,500
look we're doing the silence group

808
00:38:58,930 --> 00:38:56,480
within the Air Force is out together

809
00:39:02,050 --> 00:38:58,940
get us an answer pressed knowledge of

810
00:39:04,720 --> 00:39:02,060
UFOs you know so that that was another

811
00:39:07,060 --> 00:39:04,730
big case now you want to hear that the

812
00:39:09,850 --> 00:39:07,070
topper of the whole thing and this is a

813
00:39:14,520 --> 00:39:09,860
good friend al man again even me this

814
00:39:18,940 --> 00:39:14,530
was when in the 1960s from like 1963 to

815
00:39:21,760 --> 00:39:18,950
1966 al Manac under the auspices of the

816
00:39:27,100 --> 00:39:21,770
cleveland ufology project and he was the

817
00:39:30,580 --> 00:39:27,110
chairman for 63 or 64 and I was a I was

818
00:39:32,500 --> 00:39:30,590
an officer to of membership secretary we

819
00:39:35,470 --> 00:39:32,510
had the hotline that called right into

820
00:39:39,550 --> 00:39:35,480
Al's house and one night in the night of

821
00:39:42,730 --> 00:39:39,560
October 9th 1965 the phone began to ring

822
00:39:45,160 --> 00:39:42,740
all about nine o'clock at night and it

823
00:39:48,340 --> 00:39:45,170
turned out that there was a witness near

824
00:39:51,220 --> 00:39:48,350
the downtown Cleveland area just west of

825
00:39:52,660 --> 00:39:51,230
downtown Cleveland on Vega Avenue if

826
00:39:55,870 --> 00:39:52,670
anybody out there is familiar with

827
00:39:58,330 --> 00:39:55,880
Cleveland near Clark Avenue in Vega and

828
00:40:00,760 --> 00:39:58,340
they reported a sort of a disc-shaped

829
00:40:02,740 --> 00:40:00,770
object in the sky with the lights

830
00:40:05,380 --> 00:40:02,750
on its perimeter you know flashing the

831
00:40:08,980 --> 00:40:05,390
sequential pattern and this thing was

832
00:40:12,340 --> 00:40:08,990
heading towards the West but to make a

833
00:40:17,190 --> 00:40:12,350
long story short that night they all

834
00:40:24,370 --> 00:40:20,670
1990-2000 he could not get off the phone

835
00:40:26,440 --> 00:40:24,380
to call people to alert them he finally

836
00:40:27,970 --> 00:40:26,450
got off the phone and alerted me and

837
00:40:32,920 --> 00:40:27,980
here's where I come in but later in the

838
00:40:34,990 --> 00:40:32,930
story this thing was seen by multiple

839
00:40:37,060 --> 00:40:35,000
witnesses I still have some of the

840
00:40:39,970 --> 00:40:37,070
report forms that he mailed out and a

841
00:40:43,330 --> 00:40:39,980
mailed back one of them is so very

842
00:40:47,250 --> 00:40:43,340
striking it shows witnesses who were

843
00:40:49,720 --> 00:40:47,260
literally underneath this object and

844
00:40:51,820 --> 00:40:49,730
drew a picture of it with the lights

845
00:40:53,710 --> 00:40:51,830
around the perimeter so here you're not

846
00:40:56,830 --> 00:40:53,720
talking about an aircraft you're talking

847
00:40:58,990 --> 00:40:56,840
about the disc shaped object and that

848
00:41:01,990 --> 00:40:59,000
the night weather conditions at night

849
00:41:04,000 --> 00:41:02,000
that was there was a 2200 foot cloud

850
00:41:08,710 --> 00:41:04,010
ceiling and there was a light drizzle

851
00:41:10,900 --> 00:41:08,720
okay so whatever it was was below 2,200

852
00:41:13,210 --> 00:41:10,910
feet to be that clear invisible so it

853
00:41:15,820 --> 00:41:13,220
eventually moved towards the western

854
00:41:18,220 --> 00:41:15,830
suburbs the people were all saying the

855
00:41:20,560 --> 00:41:18,230
same thing it's a disc it's got lights

856
00:41:23,530 --> 00:41:20,570
flashing in a sequential pattern at a

857
00:41:25,930 --> 00:41:23,540
clockwise pattern on this thing okay now

858
00:41:28,600 --> 00:41:25,940
the people who got directly underneath

859
00:41:30,760 --> 00:41:28,610
it could see a lot of people say oh

860
00:41:32,590 --> 00:41:30,770
that's an advertising plane because

861
00:41:34,570 --> 00:41:32,600
believe it or not there were advertising

862
00:41:36,970 --> 00:41:34,580
planes that we used to get calls on back

863
00:41:38,860 --> 00:41:36,980
in their 60s when that was now hang and

864
00:41:42,220 --> 00:41:38,870
they when they have advertising on the

865
00:41:45,430 --> 00:41:42,230
wing of the plane you know yeah

866
00:41:49,120 --> 00:41:45,440
Goodyear Goodyear blimp advertiser UFO

867
00:41:50,110 --> 00:41:49,130
Club yeah one in 66 we had one that came

868
00:41:52,570 --> 00:41:50,120
in it was something from Plymouth

869
00:41:53,560 --> 00:41:52,580
Automobile Dealers Plymouth is out to

870
00:41:55,360 --> 00:41:53,570
win you over

871
00:41:57,580 --> 00:41:55,370
we're splashing on the wing of the plane

872
00:41:59,560 --> 00:41:57,590
finally we figured that up but this

873
00:42:01,240 --> 00:41:59,570
night it was not an advertising plane

874
00:42:03,820 --> 00:42:01,250
anyway al finally got through to me

875
00:42:06,040 --> 00:42:03,830
today other guys other thing go outside

876
00:42:08,530 --> 00:42:06,050
look up towards Baba's headed your way

877
00:42:13,960 --> 00:42:08,540
so I went out in my backyard and here's

878
00:42:16,720 --> 00:42:13,970
the damn thing to the north of me and

879
00:42:19,599 --> 00:42:16,730
it's a hate towards the west and it did

880
00:42:22,089 --> 00:42:19,609
I saw from some distance I could not

881
00:42:24,640 --> 00:42:22,099
tell the shape but I could see that it

882
00:42:27,910 --> 00:42:24,650
was moving slowly to the west and it did

883
00:42:30,520 --> 00:42:27,920
have this sequential lights flashing and

884
00:42:32,890 --> 00:42:30,530
a clockwise pattern so I immediately

885
00:42:34,810 --> 00:42:32,900
gunned the CB radio CB radio was hot

886
00:42:38,950 --> 00:42:34,820
back then that was a Facebook of its day

887
00:42:40,780 --> 00:42:38,960
you know yeah yes and other operators

888
00:42:42,820 --> 00:42:40,790
got on and I ran in the house because

889
00:42:44,890 --> 00:42:42,830
you know I got a report this thing I

890
00:42:47,589 --> 00:42:44,900
watched it for probably two minutes and

891
00:42:49,810 --> 00:42:47,599
got on and we had a particularly used to

892
00:42:51,880 --> 00:42:49,820
hang around channel 19 which ladle

893
00:42:53,920 --> 00:42:51,890
turned out to be the big call channel or

894
00:42:56,560 --> 00:42:53,930
whatever for the truckers but we all

895
00:43:00,570 --> 00:42:56,570
people were calling and they won't saw -

896
00:43:04,390 --> 00:43:00,580
and this this object moved a spot as far

897
00:43:07,890 --> 00:43:04,400
to the west of Cleveland as the suburb

898
00:43:10,750 --> 00:43:07,900
of Fairview Park where the thing was

899
00:43:13,240 --> 00:43:10,760
lost to sight whatever happened it was

900
00:43:16,690 --> 00:43:13,250
lost there but it probably traversed

901
00:43:20,170 --> 00:43:16,700
four or five miles of the heart of the

902
00:43:23,670 --> 00:43:20,180
city the west side of the city over a

903
00:43:26,050 --> 00:43:23,680
period of probably 25 to 30 minutes and

904
00:43:27,940 --> 00:43:26,060
here you had all these witnesses seeing

905
00:43:30,250 --> 00:43:27,950
the thing and it was kind of it was my

906
00:43:32,260 --> 00:43:30,260
yard clad case I mean I saw it and there

907
00:43:34,000 --> 00:43:32,270
were people who were underneath it could

908
00:43:36,160 --> 00:43:34,010
see it and people who could see it at a

909
00:43:38,800 --> 00:43:36,170
closer angle did say no it's not an

910
00:43:42,010 --> 00:43:38,810
aircraft it's not it's not the blimp you

911
00:43:44,349 --> 00:43:42,020
know it's not anything and just to make

912
00:43:46,900 --> 00:43:44,359
sure Manik did call there were two

913
00:43:49,390 --> 00:43:46,910
services one of the Cleveland one of

914
00:43:52,420 --> 00:43:49,400
Akron that actually had advertising

915
00:43:54,670 --> 00:43:52,430
planes you know advertising yes they had

916
00:43:57,730 --> 00:43:54,680
nothing up in the air that night so it

917
00:44:00,190 --> 00:43:57,740
was not an advertising plane so this was

918
00:44:03,790 --> 00:44:00,200
a up until you know you had like the

919
00:44:09,010 --> 00:44:03,800
Phoenix lights this was a really well

920
00:44:14,349 --> 00:44:09,020
witnessed mass UFO sighting over did it

921
00:44:18,010 --> 00:44:14,359
make the press at all barely barely

922
00:44:20,260 --> 00:44:18,020
we had people were calling actually into

923
00:44:22,510 --> 00:44:20,270
the to the newspapers and some of the

924
00:44:24,009 --> 00:44:22,520
radio stations and they were referring

925
00:44:26,870 --> 00:44:24,019
people to Al

926
00:44:29,269 --> 00:44:26,880
yeah so he customers this falls through

927
00:44:31,910 --> 00:44:29,279
that that's not sometimes my mother call

928
00:44:34,910 --> 00:44:31,920
I can imagine how he would have how he

929
00:44:37,759 --> 00:44:34,920
must have felt by the time he got like a

930
00:44:40,249 --> 00:44:37,769
call number 60 or something you know he

931
00:44:42,140 --> 00:44:40,259
frazzled that night yeah he was he was

932
00:44:43,789 --> 00:44:42,150
literally for as old that night he said

933
00:44:46,940 --> 00:44:43,799
I mean it took everything out of them

934
00:44:49,999 --> 00:44:46,950
but he was meticulous and getting the

935
00:44:51,680 --> 00:44:50,009
people's names and addresses and made

936
00:44:53,930 --> 00:44:51,690
sure that every one of those callers

937
00:44:56,690 --> 00:44:53,940
received a report form obviously not

938
00:44:59,930 --> 00:44:56,700
everyone mailed it back but well a

939
00:45:01,730 --> 00:44:59,940
course up did a good enough number did

940
00:45:03,710 --> 00:45:01,740
that we were able to get some good

941
00:45:06,200 --> 00:45:03,720
information out of it and prove that it

942
00:45:08,779 --> 00:45:06,210
was a really good case sir here yeah you

943
00:45:11,450 --> 00:45:08,789
know yeah it you know Rick were were

944
00:45:13,700 --> 00:45:11,460
headed towards the it was going to say

945
00:45:17,180 --> 00:45:13,710
midnight hour but it's not the midnight

946
00:45:19,759 --> 00:45:17,190
unless you're in Barbados or something

947
00:45:21,829 --> 00:45:19,769
like that I suppose I know if you want a

948
00:45:25,880 --> 00:45:21,839
happy back yeah yeah I do want to have

949
00:45:28,299 --> 00:45:25,890
you back on maybe after a memorial a day

950
00:45:32,120 --> 00:45:28,309
because we didn't get to talk about

951
00:45:36,829 --> 00:45:32,130
trains knows that's a subject no we

952
00:45:38,870 --> 00:45:36,839
never got to the church no oh you know

953
00:45:42,230 --> 00:45:38,880
I've got a lizard sightings for you to

954
00:45:46,009 --> 00:45:42,240
tea I've got a really weird stuff we

955
00:45:49,220 --> 00:45:46,019
will we will continue this and I'll

956
00:45:51,789 --> 00:45:49,230
probably be in Cleveland to be inducted

957
00:45:55,249 --> 00:45:51,799
into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame

958
00:45:57,829 --> 00:45:55,259
revolving holding your spot is there you

959
00:45:59,900 --> 00:45:57,839
know I'm very disappointed when I went

960
00:46:03,200 --> 00:45:59,910
out there now I'm an old-time rocky road

961
00:46:05,870 --> 00:46:03,210
or promoted shows new David Bowie and

962
00:46:08,410 --> 00:46:05,880
all that I was surprised that the Rock

963
00:46:10,549 --> 00:46:08,420
and Roll Hall of Fame closes so early

964
00:46:12,200 --> 00:46:10,559
really I didn't know what times they

965
00:46:15,170 --> 00:46:12,210
closed nine o'clock well I don't

966
00:46:17,109 --> 00:46:15,180
remember but it closes early well rock

967
00:46:20,569 --> 00:46:17,119
and rollers never go out before midnight

968
00:46:24,380 --> 00:46:20,579
no well maybe it's some sort of a

969
00:46:24,620 --> 00:46:24,390
corporate thing who knows well there you

970
00:46:28,700 --> 00:46:24,630
go

971
00:46:30,529 --> 00:46:28,710
but you know I'm it wins the last

972
00:46:33,099 --> 00:46:30,539
sighting there in Cleveland that they

973
00:46:35,810 --> 00:46:33,109
you're aware of what's the last report

974
00:46:39,440 --> 00:46:35,820
there was something

975
00:46:41,870 --> 00:46:39,450
and I believe in March here and it was

976
00:46:44,780 --> 00:46:41,880
kind of a lighted object it was seen out

977
00:46:47,560 --> 00:46:44,790
over Lake Erie now it's just sort of a

978
00:46:49,640 --> 00:46:47,570
you know in the average sort of space

979
00:46:51,650 --> 00:46:49,650
Lake Erie they've been they've been

980
00:46:54,770 --> 00:46:51,660
landing I we've got photos of them

981
00:46:57,500 --> 00:46:54,780
landing on Lake area I mean it's it's

982
00:47:00,590 --> 00:46:57,510
very you're right people claim like yeah

983
00:47:05,420 --> 00:47:00,600
yeah you're Erie huh we have a Lake Erie

984
00:47:08,240 --> 00:47:05,430
monster too well any other well we never

985
00:47:10,250 --> 00:47:08,250
got to talk about humanoids see there in

986
00:47:13,790 --> 00:47:10,260
don't I know there's been a lot of a lot

987
00:47:16,600 --> 00:47:13,800
of sightings of creatures and we

988
00:47:20,060 --> 00:47:16,610
investigated one case where this object

989
00:47:23,570 --> 00:47:20,070
the baby was a UFO a crash or semi UFO

990
00:47:24,080 --> 00:47:23,580
crash with this big chunka something or

991
00:47:25,850 --> 00:47:24,090
other

992
00:47:28,820 --> 00:47:25,860
it fell from the sky near a shopping

993
00:47:32,150 --> 00:47:28,830
mall that's into my hangar 18 a book

994
00:47:34,340 --> 00:47:32,160
which is now UFO crashes and legends I

995
00:47:36,260 --> 00:47:34,350
believe anyway Rick you're a fabulous

996
00:47:39,530 --> 00:47:36,270
guest you've been a friend all these

997
00:47:42,380 --> 00:47:39,540
years we'll do it again Sam and let's

998
00:47:46,480 --> 00:47:42,390
have another meeting and a check out

999
00:47:51,920 --> 00:47:46,490
check out the Rick on Facebook page yeah

1000
00:47:54,320 --> 00:47:51,930
a tiny Rd that's right you'll find there

1001
00:47:59,750 --> 00:47:54,330
you go and don't forget our YouTube

1002
00:48:02,570 --> 00:47:59,760
channel mr. UFO secret files over 400

1003
00:48:05,240 --> 00:48:02,580
interviews that'll blow your mind

1004
00:48:07,310 --> 00:48:05,250
good night one and all good night Tina

1005
00:48:12,800 --> 00:48:07,320
good night Peter good night Alan good

1006
00:48:18,870 --> 00:48:15,720
you've been listening to exploring the

1007
00:48:22,350 --> 00:48:18,880
bazaar with hosts Timothy Beckley

1008
00:48:24,660 --> 00:48:22,360
panting Swartz they're taking back the

1009
00:48:27,210 --> 00:48:24,670
night by jetting non-stop across the

1010
00:48:30,510 --> 00:48:27,220
cosmos in search of the truly bizarre

1011
00:48:33,840 --> 00:48:30,520
and totally unexplained with you as

1012
00:48:37,049 --> 00:48:33,850
their coalmines Thursday nights at 7:00

1013
00:48:40,330 --> 00:48:37,059
p.m. Pacific 10:00 p.m.

1014
00:48:42,790 --> 00:48:40,340
on the KCl our digital radio

1015
00:48:46,240 --> 00:48:42,800
for more information on exploring the

1016
00:48:49,090 --> 00:48:46,250
bazaar and hosts timothy Beckley and tim

1017
00:48:52,180 --> 00:48:49,100
Swartz check out their kco our digital

1018
00:48:58,420 --> 00:48:52,190
radio network follow their YouTube

1019
00:49:08,810 --> 00:48:58,430
channel @m our UFO 1100 explore the